A plea for help...

Viki,

Is there a petition somewhere?

I remember a case years ago, where the parents of a minor child who had committted suicide in his bedroom had to retain a lawyer just to get a copy of the note he left behind. Crazy. A copy...not the orginal.

I don't know what to say....could the family ask for just copies? Local press? My heart hurts for the family.

Maybe one of the siblings remember her say something about the diary having an updated will in it and then hope that through legal channels, force it's release to prove it did not. Don't know, I am not a lawyer. Very sad situation.

I thought we had some lawyers on the vine, they pop up and there was one article I was really surprised to see more then two discussing something on the vine.

Just to get some of their ideas would help.

I will add my comment just in hopes of getting more people to read this. A petition may be a good idea, perhaps. Also the suggestion of getting the local press involved might be worth looking into? I don't know what to say. My heart goes out to this grieving family.

Ok, first off, (so you know), my name is Teri. I am Trog's wife. The law is something I have a great interest in and am well versed in. So I am going to give you the best advice I can "off the top of my head". (I will end this with a few questions, that, if you can answer, I WILL research within the next 2 days and post more actions I think would help.)

First: The family should try to get an 'injunction'. An injunction is a way to STOP the court from proceeding further with their intended actions. They need to request the injunction to stop the court from releasing the letters to her husband. (Who sounds like an ABSOLUTE PEACH to my, btw.) There are other ways to delay the action. One would be to petiton a hearing regarding whether or not he has the right to the letters. They are to others, not to him. Though that might not go their way, what it would do is establish a "Magistrates" or "Judicial" decision. They could then file a "Writ to Stay the Magistraight's Decision". You have to site a reason for doing this and then (Usually) YOU (The petitioner) get to set the date of this hearing. (I've done this. It works.) Usually you have to set the date within 2 weeks.

Have them set it for either EXACTLY 2 weeks, (IF the petition will be heard in the morning. 13 days if heard in the afternoon.), if nothing is resolved before then, they should just NOT show up. As the "Petitioners", if they aren't there, it doesn't get heard. It get's dismissed. Then you re-file again before the close of court that day. Set it for 2 more weeks out. This is ONLY a delaying tactic, but it will buy time to try and resolve it through other channels.

Second, and MOST important, I would file a petition with the COURTS, (NOT the police or prosecutor), to have my PERSONAL PROPERTY returned/turned over to me. The letters are clearly written TO others. NOT to her "husband". So, logic dictates that they do not belong to him. They were written and intended for those to whom the salutation is inscribed. Therefore they do not belong to him. File this immediately! It, alone, very well could 'stay' any action regarding the notebook. Make it crystal clear that they do not want the NOTEBOOK. They want the LETTERS individually. As such, the court could order, that under the observation of both attorneys AND a court appointed observer (Or the Judge), that they alone are removed from the notebook and sealed in envelopes with the names of each person printed on the outside. Then turned over to each by the court.

This is the best advice I can give you off the top of my head. The first is a stalling tactic while they pursue other options. The second is the very first action they should take. They could then use the first if the second is rebuffed. Here are the questions I have, my email will be at the bottom, feel free to send anything to me there:

1. What State?

2. What County/City/District/Court is involved?

3. If you can, find out what probate/general laws are being applied and give me their #'s.

4. Was there a will?

5. What was the state of the marriage AND her famililiar relations at the time of her death?

Don't worry if you can't or don't feel comfortable answering some of these. The most important are the first 3.

I HOPE I've helped a 'little'. As I said, I am pretty good at finding the "loopholes" and finding ways to accomplish what I think is just or right. I'll help you as much as I can. Here is my Email: Rhiannon1774@msn.com

I'm so sorry for your loss.

If the family wants the letters, they should combine their resources to pay for a lawyer and use the delaying method outlined by Trog's wife. This is a guerrilla warfare tactic adapted to the legal system... if they keep the husband tied up in court forever they will turn it into a game of attrition and eventually his resources will run out for retaining a lawyer while the family's pooled resources should be enough to keep their lawyer in court tying the guy in knots with legal maneuvers. If there's one thing that the U.S. legal system does well it is allow people to tie other people up forever with legal maneuvering.

I am also sorry for your loss, and I hope everything works out. Families just amaze me at times.

The only reason a prosecutor would be holding this information is because they believe that their may be some sort of crime involved? Right? Releasing or holding this information from anyone unless it is possible evidence of a crime? Otherwise the documents would be handled by the courts if you have a lawyer.

I reckon the family is not in good with the husband? Why would he want to withhold the info unless otherwise? If this is the case a lot of butt kissin might help but if the rift is to wide you can forget it.

Only other way is through lawyers which really doesn't seem like that will help much since a husband can legally pull the plug on his wife without other family members permission.

There is much more to this story than we are being told.. and the first clue is the prosecutor has control of the documents?

Good luck...

Viki, I have no legal opinion to offer. Thankfully it appears you have some good ones here already and I expect there will be more tomorrow. I will say, though, what a kind heart you have to be helping this distraught family in their anguish. All I can really do is add my prayers to your efforts and pray this husband has a change of heart and that legal pathways will open for them to receive these communiques and most importantly for your friend to rest in peace. Blessings to you.

Contact the local television and radio stations to let them know what is happening. Contact your state representatives. Ask them to help. The Governor, the mayor, Congressmen, Senators, and whoever else is left to add.

Ask to be interviewed by a reporter for the papers.

Get a hold of ALL media outlets that can help with allowing, at the very least, copies of the letters be released to the family.

My condolences to your loss of a friend. If you and her family feel that there is foul play then contact your county's District Attorney and have them open up a case for you. It would be worth it to hire a private investigator should the local authorities fail at offering any time to an investigation. Keep at it and as one poster suggested contact the press, newspapers and local TV stations. Since time is pressing, quickly file a civil suit for those private papers that can be done today. Best of Luck to her family and friends.

Of what I could glean from the various and often good suggestions, is this:

1. The notes ARE addressed to individuals by name, and were executed prior to death. (Though a "hardball" lawyer might try to suggest mental incompetency as an argument because of the NATURE of her death.)

2. If the competency issue doesn't surface, why shouldn't the letters be included in Probate as a bequest, held by the executor's attorney to be revealed/distributed to all, as named, at close of Probate?

Suicide is the ultimate expression of HOPELESSNESS. That in itself SHOULD raise questions about the Husband's rights to intervene in the process, at minimum, and red flags about his direct or latent involvement in her death. Not actually holding the "smoking gun", in itself, does NOT absolve him of all responsibility. I'm not saying it exists, but reasonable doubt IS a two-way street.

Clipped to Grief Support and Tributes.

Perhaps the husband is struggling with the fact that his wife ended her life, and is so emotionally distraught he doesn't want to acknowledge the fact that she is gone, or is so upset he doesn't want to think of any of her reasons why she did go...

I'm no psychologist, but he may, over time eventually give them the letters, just remember he is suffering an extreme amount of pain as well.

He exchanged vows with this woman, probably loved her most of anything in his life, and cannot even begin to understand why she killed herself, why she didn't talk to him, why this, why that, etc. It's a stage of mourning, how long he will remain in this stage is unknown.

I hope he does the right thing, please let us know if he does.

Sorry for your loss, Vicki and to Joyce's family.

Unfortunately, I don't have the legal answers

But great suggestions and briefing from the Viners. Kudos to them, and I hope one of their ideas helps or pans out.

Take care.

Viki,

One way to get copies is to file a civil action and have the letters, etc., produced through discovery. However, you have to have a viable cause of action as a complaint. An example would be bringing an action for wrongful death against someone you think caused or contributed to her suicide death. Not knowing what demons your friend was battling is very disturbing and you have my sympathies.

Not to be a wet blanket, but this sounds like a hoax to me. There is not much specific information - who is the DA, is there any outside source (media, etc) that covers any of this story? I have seen similar stories around the net and in email forwards that end up just being a way to defraud money out of people that want to help. Maybe I'm wrong, I hope I am, but unless there was any other information (case #, DA's # so you could contact them, etc) for verification, I would remain suspicious of this and not send any money to anyone.

When someone you love has killed themselves your grasp of reality gets very sketchy. The husband refusing to release them until he has read them, seems sensible to me. If I were the husband in that situation I would do the same thing. I would not want a fathers last letter from his daughter to be hate filled or focused on petty things.

Was she separated from her husband when she died? If she was still with him and not leaving then his wishes should be respected. If she had left him and the were split, then it should be very easy for a lawyer to show that he is not the appropriate executor.

Undoubtedly it is police policy to hold any "evidence" until a determination is made of the actual cause of death and a ruling of whether it was suicide or homicide. Also, if the prosecutor's office has the book, her husband cannot "release" it. I see no other indication in the article that there is animosity between husband and rest of family, so I wouldn't speculate on any motivation there. The wheels of justice often turn slowly. I think that eventually all will be known.

has anyone called the fbi or state authorities to see if theres a history of this behaviour out of this office.?or possible cover up of a crime?or to at least have a higher office read the questionable documents to put away the suspicion of a possible crime being covered up?

So the lesson here is to post your suicide notes people.

I feel people confuse suicides as victims. I think it's more a case of ultimate empowerment but I'm bent. The survivors are the victims and this aftermath is emotionally charged and naturally biased against the hubby who may well be acting for good reason.

I'm sorry it happened though.

The prosecutor's office has cited "policy" as the reason they will not release the letters to Joyce's sisters, brother, and father. The letters have been read by the police investigating Joyce's death, but not by those left mourning her.

Any idea what policy they are citing? Perhaps if we knew that we could better deal with this problem. I'm wondering if they are treating it as evidence of a crime or something as opposed to having a set policy for suicides. I say that because some police departments have a policy of investigating every death regardless of whether there was foul play.

My condolences, Vikki.

I know two reporters who work in Atlantic City and may be able to help put you in touch with some media outlets if you or the family want to go that direction.

I'm sorry to hear this terrible tragedy and compounding injustice.

The prosecutors office is very likely following standard probate laws. Given that surviving spouses hold the right to each other's property ahead of any other family in lieu of a will the authorities are only following state, federal, regulations.

However, a good attorney may be able to work with the prosecutors office to allow a private viewing of the documents at the very very least, before they are turned over to the husband.